The Policeman's Blog

What we can't have are metal detectors at the school gates.
We don't want to be following in America's footsteps. Thats over the top but they do have a big problem with it over there.

I agree with NightJacks answer to it. Stop whinging and help us get the real problem kids sorted out.
By ignoring or trying to deal with problems in house, just creates a win environment for the kid.
He'll do it again, others will follow, only stronger and harder and more determined.
 

A bit off thread I know but somehow appropriate for this time of year……..

http://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/section-item.asp?sid=12&iid=6030

The re-dedication ceremony is at 1.00 pm 13th November for those that are within striking distance of Leeds.

This story shows exactly the sort of behaviour that is incomprehensible to some of the youth of today (not all I know)... imagine going to such lengths for other people!!!
 

"What we can't have are metal detectors at the school gates."

Why's that then?
 

In the mid '80's, just after A-levels and before deciding what I was going to do next (this was more of a stop gap, rather than gap year...), I worked at the Local Education Authority. It was staffed with burnt-out teachers who had a number of anecdotes on how to instil discipline in the classroom that would be seen as out of order in the current public order environment, let alone a school.

What did I do? I compiled stats for use by central government - an activity that was a full or part-time occupation for over 2/3rd of the staff. Unless there was some kind of education-related crisis requiring more people to fix that is. Something to think about as you pay your Council Tax - as I doubt it's got any better since...
 

Nightjack's eloquence aside, I remain unconvinced that pupil behaviour should be allowed to seriously deteriorate prior to police intervention. Far better is the obvious economy of a stitch in time.

The chair of hypocritical condemnation offers a comfortable seat from which the speaker may be carried away to distraction. Reality for me is a younger generation having poor role models from whom they are expected to draw examples of respect and good conduct. Consider the bad language and violence in entertainment, crudities from and drug taking by, 'celebrities', gross dishonesty on the part of politicians, incalculable cheating from bankers and brokers, not to mention the insatiable avarice of lawyers. All this scoria oozes down from the upper slopes of society to coalesce in our progeny.

The police profession made high profile news this week with none of it good. Finding prominence were the cases of speeding police vehicles and the killing of innocent pedestrians; an officer facing a jail sentence for child sex, another jailed for soliciting sex from a women under arrest and misconduct in office; yet another is entrusted to the estate of a deceased person from which he purloins a winning betting slip; irreconcilable accounts from police and public in the de Menezes Inquest.....

It is impossible to accept that the young remain uninfluenced by the sum of adult actions or that factors acting together are not synergistic in the behavioural downturn. Nobody is born an 'evil little bastard' to quote Nightjack. Full responsibility cannot be laden on the shoulders of innocent children and it is wrong to wait for any of them to stumble on a rocky road.
 

Dr Gray, while i salute your very eloquently written passage, i must disagree. In my day-to-day work as community constable in London, i have more face-to-face contact with teenagers than a lot of my collegues (not a schools officer but close).
Some are great, and just want to crack on (study now, good grade equals good money 'aiet').
Others are swayed by the pack - these ones are great because you CAN acutally speak to them.
Then the third group are scum. Descended from scum, bred as scum, destined to be scum. They don't care, they are morality black holes. If anyone stops their behaviour or disagrees with their point of view then "you dissin me", be prepared to reap the whirlwind. One particular 'child' springs to mind, at the age of thirteen they were told to stop listening to music in class. When they refused, the teacher went to remove the device from the child. The child broke the teachers fingers.

Nuff said.
 

"It's unbelievable that this is happening really - did it ever occur to you that you might stab someone, or be stabbed, at school, for goodness' sake?" Well I'm 61 and have a stab wound in my leg from when I was at a East Midlands village school age 13 :-(
 

I personally believe that the main 'culprits' are the various 'rights' brigades (mainly the ones that look after children). I know that this may seem extreme, but think about it. All young creatures that are cared for by their parents are disciplined when they do wrong. As a consequence, they learn what is acceptable in their community.
Children are (at a young age) little better than animals (time for me to run for cover!), although they have the potential to be so much better, but they must learn what society will accept. However, agencies such as the NSPCC has succeeded in getting disciplinary measures (such as smacking) made unacceptable. Unfortunately this means that we now have a generation of animals amongst us who look human, but who are, in effect, sociopaths.
I do not deny that the NSPCC does try to do good, but somewhere along the way they have lost sight of the long term harm caused by the lack of effective punishment.
Geoff, I would imagine that what happened to you was reported in the papers with some shock, as at that time knife crime was unusual. I am a generation younger than you, and (if my memory serves me right) knife crime was not normal when I was 13, unlike the way it seems now.
James
 

James - are you forgetting about Teddy Boys with their stiletto's and flick knives. Very prevalent in my village as witnessed by the state of the shredded seats on the local trains!
Nope it wasn't reported in the papers either
 

I used to carry knife to school, most of us did. The difference was that the worst we ever did with them was scratch initials on a desk. No one ever stabbed anyone.
 

"Nobody is born an 'evil little bastard' to quote Nightjack"

Actually we are all born 'evil little bastards'. And on the whole we remain like that at heart. (Or are you some kind of living saint who rarely has a selfish thought?)

It is virtues we have to learn, the vices come naturally.
 

Quote Dr Melvin T Gray - "Reality for me is a younger generation having poor role models from whom they are expected to draw examples of respect and good conduct".

Would you agree with me Dr Melv, that firefighters are good role models then? So, explain to me, in your own convoluted way, why I have been threatened, had the fire engine bricked, had equipment stolen, had abuse shouted at, and threatened to be killed "if you don't get me out now", whilst rendering first aid to the victim in an RTA, all whilst on duty? This goes on daily, up and down the country, and half the time we don't report it, so the figures are MUCH higher. Whats your answer to THAT then, Dr Melv?

Over to you........
 

Rogerborg

Why we can't have metal detectors is because, Metal detectors don't work.
Who would stand at them and search every kid that activated it and how far would the search go. How many extra staff would be needed? Would you employ security??? Or would it be down to teachers? What powers do you have to search a kid who activates the alarm.

How often do you think the alarm would sound, when you have a kid carrying such things as his dinner money, metal pencil case, ruler, compass etc. and of course knife, that didn't actually trigger the alarm in the first place as it was placed discreetly inside his/her underwear.

The school day would have to start and finish later so as to get all the kids through the door in time for registration.

Just some of the reasons why we can't have metal detectors at the school gates.
 

OLD ANDREW.....You can speak for yourself, as to being born an "evil little bastard". You are clearly "from the dark side", a negative thinker, whose glass is always half empty and who ALWAYS sees the worst in people.

We are NOT all the same and ALL of us are not born "evil little bastards". Many do appear to have a nasty streak in them and do delight in hurting others and destroying everything that is good. But that is not ALL of us.

Babies are born innocent, helpless, unable to look after themselves, or speak, or do much at all, except sleep, feed and cry, and smile at those who LOVE them. Vices are learnt and COPIED from others. Monkey see monkey do, unless one HAS been born with a GOOD SOUL, a good heart, a strong will and determination to do good to and for others, and to "fight" against negative influences and negative people.

I was NOT "born evil", and nor were a great many good hearted, right thinking, spiritually inclined souls, whose lives are often blighted and sometimes cut short, by the "evil little bastards" from the dark side.

Take off your blinkers Old Andrew, and SEE THE LIGHT and THE TRUTH.

If kids are raised with love, kindness and respect, as well as reasonable discipline when they make mistakes, they will grow up into good people.

If you treat children harshly with contempt, malice, cruelty and a lack of care, love or respect.... they often grow up to be a problem to others and society, because nastiness is ALL they know. They are the evil bastards, raised to be like that, by evil bastards.

To bring about change you have to break the cycle of negative thinking, destructive thought patterns, and negative behaviour.

It will not happen overnight and it will require effort and patience, to put right the damage done to our society over the recent decades. Meanwhile, people like you with the ignorant attitude you appear to have, are not helpful in a crisis.

ER Indoors
 

Well said Dr Mel T Gray.
You are so right!

ER Indoors
 

"Many do appear to have a nasty streak in them and do delight in hurting others and destroying everything that is good. But that is not ALL of us."

I am not complaining that we all want to "destroy everything that is good". I am merely pointing out that we are not natural saints who do nothing but love and serve others, acting always with restraint and self-discipline, unless we are corrupted by some form of intervention from other human beings.

We all have an inclination to do wrong, and we all give into it sometimes.

Or are you claiming that you are a living saint yourself? Or just that people usually are saintly, even if you or I are exceptions to that rule?
 

I graduated from high school in 1983 in Southeast Texas. My graduating class was over 500. Virtually every male carried a knife. I started carrying mine in the 5th grade, and in high school, many of the Future Farmers of America students carried large lock blades in belt sheaths. I routinely loaned my knife to my chemistry teacher, who used it to sharpen pencils since the pencil sharpener in his classroom was broken. Yet during my entire school career nobody was stabbed.

My school was not a perfect idyllic place. There were occassional fights, but they never involved knives and the principal or coaches handled these incidents themselves. The only time I ever saw a police officer arrest a student was for a crime committed off campus.

I have always believed that zero tolerance policies are a part of the problem. When every incident carries the "Maximum" penalty it is not suprising that youths escalate to maximum force. After all, in for penny in for a pound.
 

The roots of this problem are easy enought to trace; the liberal do-gooders with their mantra of 'rights' 'rights' 'rights'.

Our public sector in now firmly in the grip of a kabal of privately educated 'liberals' (sic) who are unrepresntative of the wider population, and are effectively forcing their so-called 'values' on the rest of us.

The police, the education system, local authorities. and the civil service are all run by these individuals who are incompetent, arrogant and aloof. They are able liars and most worryingly of all they lie to themselves.

The ideologies they have brought in are not based on evidence of there effectiveness, but on a desire to obtain some form of pseudo moral and intellectual sense of 'superiority'. Whatever the prevailing view from the mainstream they will gainsay it, just prove how 'progressive' they are (for 'progressive read 'better' than you!).

Raising to be the head of some public body, they then hire endless ranks of middle managers and countless other non-jobs. This effectively insulates them from the disaterious effects of their own policies; like children murdering each other!

Until these liberal establishment is removed from government no form of effective change can be brought it.

That leaves the rest of us i.e. the majority public and police alike suffering the consquences of 'progressive' policies on social welfare, schooling and the criminal justice system.

Personally I'd love to follow in Copperfields footsteps and bugger off to the land of the maple leaf where things are not pefect, but some of sanity is to be had.

A very worried member of the public.
 

Dear Oldandrew,
My guess is that you knew a concept in Mailer's final novel was unintended for generalization. Sad to see your old style teaching options, including clipping young heads with Aristotle, removed. Those good and bygone schooldays were filled with multiple reasons for being well behaved and alert.
 

Dr MTG,

Are you going to answer my question? Are you without sin yourself, or is your claim that most people are natural saints only meant to apply to others?

This is where these discussions of human nature seem to break down, when people make lofty statements about humanity but then realise how ludicrous it would be to apply such statements to themselves, let alone everybody.
 

Quote Dr Melvin T Gray - "Reality for me is a younger generation having poor role models from whom they are expected to draw examples of respect and good conduct".

Would you agree with me Dr Melv, that firefighters are good role models then? So, explain to me, in your own convoluted way, why I have been threatened, had the fire engine bricked, had equipment stolen, had abuse shouted at, and threatened to be killed "if you don't get me out now", whilst rendering first aid to the victim in an RTA, all whilst on duty? This goes on daily, up and down the country, and half the time we don't report it, so the figures are MUCH higher. Whats your answer to THAT then, Dr Melv?

Over to you........

Come on Dr Melv, as oldandrew said, are you going to answer this or what?
 

Sorry, it was purely by accident I tuned into Rampton Hospital. Good luck with the patient ranting "all kids come from hell" and his joint quest for Jesus with the psychotic fireman begging reassurance.
 

"the psychotic fireman begging reassurance."?

Did you actually bother to read what I have written, a genuine question for the "Doctor" who pontificates eloquently, (of which I am still waiting an answer for, incidently), or are the voices in your head telling you what's on the page?
 

My experience of debating this issue is that it always does turn to insults.

Ironic given that the people who throw the insults are apparently claiming to be saints.
 

My sentiments exactly. It's all education. The lack of education and general ignorance that comes with SOME kids is unbelievable. I must stress that I've met lots of kids in my travels that i have no doubt will turn in to fine adults, contributing to this country. But yeah, something needs to be done about the other bunch of wasters.
 

The law in respect of offensive weapons gives something of a clue to the age of these problem of knives; The Prevention of Crime Act, 1953. Known at the time as "The Cosh Act" because of the knife carrying Teddy Boys etc etc as someone else mentioned. This slippery slope is, in fact, a very long one.
 

Surveys are worth jack sh*t. Pick a few people, multiply it up, get some plonkers to wind up about it, and make it look popular.

Bah. Humbug.
 

Here are some thumbnail reports of what I read about what's happening in Britain these days. How do young people cope with pressures of growing up in this type of atmosphere?

.....and to add salt to the wound, why is this happening? Have they all abandoned the rock to join Copperfield in Edmonton, Canada?
 

OLD ANDREW. I'm not claiming to be perfect, but I strongly object to your blanket statement and veiw, that we are ALL born "evil little bastards". You are very wrong about that. Perhaps you should read my comment again.

There are living "saints" amongst us, who do good works to improve the lives of others.
People often used to say, that I did have the patience of a saint, years ago, which was true..... until I married a right bastard! But the less said about him the better, as I do try hard to forgive those who do me wrong. You decide whether or not that makes me "saintly".

From my own early childhood personal experiences, growing up and witnessing cruelty and injustice done to the very poorest kids, that motivated ME to try to do something to alter their suffering. For which I was "persecuted" without mercy, but that did not stop me from getting on with my heartfelt life mission. You decide Old Andrew, if that is "saintly".

On my roller-coaster journey of life, of course there were traps and pitfalls along the way. People who distacted me, worked against me, undermined me, hurt me and generally made my life difficult. I stumbled a few times and my behaviour was less than saintly, due to anger over harsh, unfair treatment. But then I am only a spiritual being in a human body.

As for "doing wrong", well nobody is 100% perfect, and yes I made mistakes and did some things of which I am not proud, which were CAUSED by negative influences intent on pushing me off track, and spoiling my life path. But I never deliberately hurt anyone.

Have I broken the law? Yes, I have used cannabis in the past, but in all honesty I don't consider using it to be "wrong". The use of it, moderately, at times of extreme anxiety, pain and distress was medicinal and beneficial. [I am not talking about the harmful Genetically Modified Skunk here]
The use of cannabis helped me to chill out when I was under considerable strain, and to be calm and easy going through adversity. Not ALL of us like or use alcohol to unwind or relax.

So, having fessed up to past use of cannabis, which is against the governments law....despite the fact that the Lord God Almighty, our Creator and Great Architect of the Universe, actually CREATED HERBS for the healing of mankind... In the eyes of Gordo Brown I am a "sinner" and not very "saintly". But Jacqui Spliff my not agree with him! However, you decide Old Andrew, whether you think I am saintly, or not.
I just claim to be me, doing my best against the "evil little bastards" from the dark side. ;0)

ER Indoors
 

The gap between how you describe yourself and how you come across is astounding.

There is nobody here reading your post and thinking "I wish I was as good as him" and this has nothing to do with drug-taking and everything to do with your attitude to other people.
 

Dear oldandrew,

A healthy outlook has a clear view of decent motives. Waiting up all night to pour immediate scorn upon members of the public daring to disagree with your views, is a soupçon abnormal. Your eager disdain for ER indoors is more evident in little care taken to comprehend her gender by way of her own comment on an unhappy marriage.

Narrow vision is the lot of those drifting from job to job. Poor attitude will even overshadow inadequate performance and when jobs fail, 'someone else from hell' is a culprit of the imagination.

Look upon the brevity of your stay in the teaching profession as more the luck of students. Gravitating to a job where impediments of dogma and arrogance are not so prejudicial as they are to other careers, is your own good fortune.
 

Have we lost sight of the original thought provoking article!!
Yes I agree fights were very much the norm in my school years (now aged 40) however there appeared to be an unwritten code, NO WEAPONS & YOU STOPPED PUNCHING WHEN YOUR OPPONENT WENT TO THE FLOOR. If you didn't conform to the rules then you were seen as a coward.
However de-sensitised we as Police Officers are I can not and will not ignore the evil acts that the younger generation are now capable of. The blame??? Well it should be laid at the door of the parents first. However, who created these parents?? The previous generation. However the real problem, identified above, is how do we stop it. There really is only one answer in my view (Jaundiced I DONT THINK SO) make the penalty fit the crime. Carrying a knife - Gaol, no time off for good behaviour, rather more sentence for BAD behaviour. I have been involved in incidents, and I know I am not alone, where my life has been threatened by someone with a knife. Should circumstances have been different then my wife would have been a widow, my children orphans and my name on a plaque at HQ. I am not saying that you van't have an opinion on knife & violent crime, rather your opinion isn't as well informed as others. Until gaol sentences are served in full then scum will laugh in the face of judges & Magistrates.

Govt wake up and smell the coffee, or should that be Napalm!!
 

Well, let's see if we can't re-frame our terms here.

No child is born an 'evil little bastard'. Children are born as blank slates, devoid of virtually any moral framework. Perhaps we can agree on that, at least.

But then - Nightjack never said the 'born an evil little bastard' line. Dr MTG fabricated that 'quote' from what Nightjack actually wrote. So perhaps we should stop bandying that about quite so freely.

I don't think that anyone with actual real-world experience of the seedier side of life - like, oh, let's say, a police officer - would seriously deny that the world include a certain proportion of 'evil little bastards'. How they got to be that way is, of course, a subject for endless fruitless speculation, complete the with the opportunities for many fruitfuol career opportunities paid for with public money. Unfortunately, it does not seem that our greater understanding of how ELB's are created has helped us to solutions to our ongoing problem, namely, how to stop them from being that way. Suggestions on a postcard, please . . .

llater,

llamas
 

"no-one is born an evil little bastard"

Mmmmm...interesting suggestion. On an estate near us it is amazing how many of the thieving little oiks are related - and all the decent kids who live near them appear to be from a different gene pool despite living next door sometimes!!
One robber whose mother became impreganted from a knee trembler in a doorway when she was "cowing" in London years ago - is an arrogant violent obnoxious little shite, yet his half brother born a few years later from better breeding stock is a decent worker. They were both brought up in the same household !!

There is something in the genes you know !! They spread criminality and are increasing as the "dole sponging layabouts" with their council house, benefits and criminal scams are the only ones that can afford food, plenty of alcohol and drugs, wide screen television - and access to cheap social housing !!
 

PS - Doc Grey - what do you make of that!!!
 

Off topic digressions oblige me to offer apologies to Nightjack after borrowing his 'evil little bastards' description. My suggestion that nobody was born such was mischievously misinterpreted to credit him with an opposing belief.

I have nothing further to add to a hijacked 'debate'.
 

Look upon the brevity of your stay in the teaching profession as more the luck of students. Gravitating to a job where impediments of dogma and arrogance are not so prejudicial as they are to other careers, is your own good fortune.

More silly insults ("brevity"?). You don't see a contradiction between this and your apparent belief in your own saintliness?
 

Children are born as blank slates, devoid of virtually any moral framework. Perhaps we can agree on that, at least.

No. Firstly, children are most definitely not blank slates. You only have to see the differences between the sexes to see that. Secondly, we might not dignify it with the words "moral framework" but children can show moral virtues and vices from a very young age without being trained in them.
 

As a Cop who has retired and now works in a school the majority of kids have morals but it is not 'cool' to show them openly. Today two 15 yr old boys let off a very large firework in a school coridoor packed out with 11 & 12 year olds. Two fire alarms were activated by unknown kids (thus clearing the situation very quickly) and it only took about ten minutes for the names to passed to staff of the boys responsible. This was not done openly but the majority of the kids in the school realized how dangerous the situation was and made sure that those who needed to be identified and punished, were named and shamed. The Police were called and they were both expelled on the spot. Don't judge a school by events that happen, judge the school by what happens in response to the event.
 

OLD ANDREW. You appear to be contradicting yourself. First you say that vices come naturally and it is virtues which we have to learn, and to quote you..."because we are ALL born evil little bastards".

Then you say after a bit of banter, that kids DO show moral virtues and vices from a young age without being trained in them. Well YES, how right we are and at last you agree with me!

I'm very impressed that you have such amazing psychic powers which enable you to KNOW what every person who reads this blog thinks of me. WOW, I'm surprised that the S.I.S have not snapped you up as a secret weapon in the interests of national security!

So, how do I "come across" Teacher?
Sarky, cheeky, a bit of a rebel, challenging, an inspiration to others? Or is it "could do better and should not answer back"?

ER Indoors
 

"I used to carry knife to school, most of us did. The difference was that the worst we ever did with them was scratch initials on a desk."

I don't remember taking a knife to school back in the 80s, but plenty of kids did, and one of my friends used to make nitroglycerine in chemistry lessons and carry it around in a test tube in his blazer through the afternoon before he went home. While I'm still amazed that the latter never managed to blow himself up, the closest I remember anyone coming to a stabbing was when another friend threw a knife into the wall about a foot from the head of the class bully, in order to make a point; said bully avoided that guy forever after.

Of course back then if anyone had pulled a knife in a fight, the teachers would have beaten the crap out of them and their parents probably would have done too. Today the kid's parents would call the police in to arrest any teacher who did that and get them kicked out of work and barred for life.

And I should add that this wasn't a rough school by any means; it's currently one of the highest ranked in the country and around 20% of us went to Oxford or Cambridge the year I graduated.

Knives are not the problem: a total lack of discipline and kids who don't fear the consequences of stabbing each other is the problem.
 

"No child is born an 'evil little bastard'. Children are born as blank slates, devoid of virtually any moral framework. Perhaps we can agree on that, at least."

Most children are born as 'evil little bastards'; they have to be taught to act better than that. And if a society refuses to teach them, said society is doomed.

It's worth remembering that William Golding, author of 'Lord of the Flies', was a teacher... he knew about what he wrote.
 

O.K....Time-out for a little levity!

The last resort to dealing with unruly and disruptive students is not the rod, a reprimand, nor punishment of any type, but......THIS! No Joke.
 

OLD ANDREW. You appear to be contradicting yourself. First you say that vices come naturally and it is virtues which we have to learn, and to quote you..."because we are ALL born evil little bastards".

Then you say after a bit of banter, that kids DO show moral virtues and vices from a young age without being trained in them.

No contradiction. Apart from the obvious fact that we learn things without being specifically trained in them, I have never claimed that there was no good in people, just that we all had an inclination to do wrong.

Well YES, how right we are and at last you agree with me!

I'm baffled. What do you now think you are saying?

I'm very impressed that you have such amazing psychic powers which enable you to KNOW what every person who reads this blog thinks of me.

Strangely enough, I don't need psychic powers to spot that you are coming across as anything other than the living saint you'd have us believe you are.
 

OLD ANDREW. You, like a lot of people read into what is said, whatever you prefer to believe.
At NO time have I ever claimed to be a "living saint". Seems to me that you are just bored because you have no schoolkids to pick on. So you thought that you would have a go at me, because I disagreed with your particular tainted view of the world and people.

Personally, from childhood my natural inclination was not to do "wrong" at all. It is the negative input along the way that can knock kids off track. However, I will agree that SOME people do appear to be born with an "evil streak" in them.

Some really are born the exact opposite. The extreme of either is unusual, but still happens.... Jesus Christ, Ghandi, Hitler, Myra Hindley. As a society we seem to hear more about the bad bastards and their evil deeds, which stick in the memory. Anyone seeking to do good, or even aspire to a degree of "sainthood" becomes an immediate target and focus for negative people and dark forces, that make a great effort to spoil good works and good people.

The bottom line Mr Teacher, is that we are not ALL born evil little bastards, however you may well have been, because that is how your snipes come across.


We don't ALL have an inclination to do wrong Mr Teacher, We are all subjected to TEMPTATION and negative forces, which we can either resist, or be driven by, into "doing wrong". It all comes down to what actually "turns you on"....the forces of Light, God, goodness, kindness, love, forgiveness, compassion, peace.
Or the opposite dark forces, of hate, anger, greed, violence, war, destruction etc. You get my drift.

I have NEVER been a fan of the dark side, but I have had to defend myself from it, like millions of people who take their spiritual life seriously. Do you?

ER Indoors
 

At NO time have I ever claimed to be a "living saint".

We don't ALL have an inclination to do wrong Mr Teacher

We are all subjected to TEMPTATION and negative forces,

Now who's contradicting their own argument?
 

The problem we have is that all of the services and systems we relay on as a society have effectively been hijakced by a class of upper middle class liberals with an extreme left-wing agenda.

The education systems, local councils, the court system, prisons the police and even so-called children's charities form part of this insane world of fanciful ideologies that do not work in the real world.

When I started school in the late sixities and through to the early eighties the UK was a sane country; why? because most parents and the various arms of our public services all broadly agreed, and understood the concept of 'right and wrong' and absolutes in behaviour.

Now as a parents my wife and I feel we have to insulte our child against the public sector. We teach her that manners are important, that certain behaviour is bad and will bring negative consquences, and that teachers, police officers et al are there for our benefit and are to be respected. People who rob, steal, take drugs, burgle et are 'bad people' no if's or excuses!

The problem is when they start school they then get to see little Johny Yob get away with murder in the classroom and a bucket load of excuses and 'help' if you're child is the vicitm of this little thug don't expect help from the school 'We can't discuss other people's children' a colleague of mine was smugly told by a teacher when she complained the class thug had thrown a brick at her child.

This little animal was given the staring role in the school play and made captain of the football team; it was all about his 'self -esteem'. What does this say to kid's? Behave little a monster and the grown-ups will cave in!

No wonder we have so many problems with youth crime!
 

OLD ANDREW said..."Now who's contradicting their own argument"

Well, not moi Mr Teacher, because I wasn't arguing in the first place. You are the one who first questioned if myself and Dr Mel T Gray might be some sort of "living saints". I have not claimed to be a saint.

There is NO contradiction in stating that we don't all have an "inclination" to do wrong. An inclination means that we have a strong drive within us.

To be subjected to TEMPTATION and negative force means that is something that acts UPON us, which we either resist, remaining virtuous, or we get dragged down by. There is no contradiction in what I said. You just chose to have a petty snipe again, to pick an argument. Because you have nothing better to do.
You need not bother posting anymore snipes for me.
I have proved my point, but you are not a big enough man to concede that I have.

ER Indoors
 

Hi, this is very interesting. I hope you would continue this advocate to spread your good news. By the way, I have a site which offers Free E-Books for computers, programming, cooking lessons, sexy magazines and so much more. Please visit my Free E-Book Downloads website. Thanks.
 

There is NO contradiction in stating that we don't all have an "inclination" to do wrong. An inclination means that we have a strong drive within us.

Perhaps it was inevitable that having had your argument fall to pieces you'd start redefining words.

That is not what "inclination" means.

If you want to use the actual definition of "inclination" you will realise that in claiming not to have an inclination to sin you are indeed claiming to be a living saint.
 

INCLINATION.....disposition, a natural tendency, leaning towards -Oxford Dictionary Teacher.

My words can be easily understood by anyone who cares to read and think about them.

Old Andrew is a sad man just looking for an argument or an opportunity to be spiteful.
Suggest you look up the meaning of "inclination" Old Andrew as you appear to have one, to be obnoxious.
 

An inclination means that we have a strong drive within us.

INCLINATION.....disposition, a natural tendency, leaning towards

Ah, so you were wrong. Funny that somebody claiming to be a living saint finds that it so hard to admit that or to refrain from insults.
 

Still trying to pick a fight Old Andrew. If you are insulted by an honest opinion of how you "come across", which is actually quite obnoxious, so be it. Be "insulted" by my honesty.

You are just nit picking over words. I don't believe that my understanding of the words "All born evil little bastards" was wrong. Nor my understanding of what the word inclination actually means, which I was not wrong about.

I have not been "wrong" in what I have stated on this blog, and I have not "claimed to be a living saint". I claim to be a human being with an inclination to do good unto others and to oppose evil. That makes me a Christian, who is bored with your silly game.

ER Indoors
 

I was insulted by the insults. I'm surprised you missed them.

Still, if we can have dictionary definitions right next to the dodgy definitions and you still can't admit that you were wrong, or if you can claim to be a Christian while pouring out abuse against anyone who dares agree with the Christian view of human nature, then there is no point continuing. I can demonstrate that you are wrong but I cannot force you to admit it.
 

OK, argument over?
Er Indoors, you've been deleted before when posting as VE - don't make us get the electronic marker pen out again. Same goes for Dr Melvin T Gray. Old Andrew - these people really are best ignored.
 

Coppersblog Team. I had nothing more to say to Old Andrew, who really is just looking for someone to pick on. I have better things to do with my time and energy.
[It's not easy when Teachers expect us all to be saints!]

You deleted comments in the past left by someone who claimed to be "Ve". You also deleted some of mine which were an inconvenient controversial truth.

I really am quite surprised by your obvious bigotry. But hey, point taken, I shall take your advice to the devil's advocate, Old Andrew, and shall ignore this blog in future. Bye.X

Peace and Love

ER Indoors
 

Bye.