The Policeman's Blog

I live in Houston, near the city where this happened. I have mixed feelings about this shooting.

First of all, not all Texans are "shoot first, ask questions later," unlike the stereotype that this case portrays.

There are a bunch of losers in this case. The dead thief, of course. The shooter will get lots of unwanted attention. He will also pay a lot in lawyers fees, regardless of the eventual outcome of his encounter with the legal system. The owner of the home that the thieves visited will probably be worse off, due to all of the attention. The police do not look so good here, either.

The neighborhood is the only winner that I can see. Burglaries will be down, because you can be sure that the bad guys in this case were doing a lot of jobs before they were caught. Others will be encouraged to look elsewhere for an easy haul.

I have had four burglaries in the last 20 years, here in Houston. In one case my wife hid under the bed, after calling the police during a break-in. She has not been able to sleep quite as well since. In each case, I wished death or permanent crippling harm to the trash who violated our home. But, robbery is not a capital offence, even in Texas.
 

The old boy on the phone was obviously a decent law abidinmg citizen (up to now) who wasn't prepared to stand by and do nothing whilst his neighbours home was being violated, you could hear he anguish in his voice when he was deciding what to do, a brave man to boot. I can't find it in myself to condemn him morally, legally it is another matter. I know who I would prefer to have as a neighbour though and it aint the burglars
 

Interesting case and hats off to the dispatcher. Having heard the tape I think the old man should be charged with manslaughter. He was repeatedly talked out of doing anything and warned by the dispatcher but ignored him. My understanding of the law is that you can shoot people inside your home but not outside. So if you shoot them near a window you'd better hope they fall inside the room!
 

Good citizen sees crime in progress, and follows his right and duty to intervene - despite police advice not to, but its only advice, and the duty of the citizen is still to intervene (dates back to the old hue and cry days!)

citizen is an old man and in fear that the robbers might be armed, so arms himself in case things turn bad (legal!) believes his life to be in danger when he confronts them at the gate - if in genuine & reasonable fear of his life then shooting them is legal

(after all, they could have been suicide robbers concealing a bomb in the swag bag!)


Cant see the problem myself!
 

Completely off topic, but ....

Top this for a speeding ticket...

Two traffic patrol officers from North Berwick were involved in an unusual incident while checking for speeding motorists on the A1 Great North Road.
One of the officers used a hand-held radar device to check the speed of a vehicle approaching over the crest of a hill, and was surprised when the speed was recorded at over 300 mph.

Their radar suddenly stopped working and the officers were not able to reset it.

Just then a deafening roar over the treetops revealed that the radar had in fact latched on to a Tornado jet which was engaged in a low-flying exercise over the Border district, approaching from the North Sea.
Back at police headquarters the chief constable fired off a stiff complaint to the RAF Liaison office.
Back came the reply in true laconic RAF style:


"Thank you for your message, which allows us to complete the file on this incident. You may be interested to know that the tactical computer in the Tornado had detected the presence of, and subsequently locked onto, your hostile radar equipment and automatically sent a jamming signal back to it.

Furthermore, an air-to-ground missile aboard the fully-armed aircraft had also automatically locked onto your equipment.

Fortunately the pilot flying the Tornado recognized the situation for what it was, quickly responded to the missile systems alert status, and was able to override the automated defence system before the missile was launched and your hostile radar installation was destroyed.



Good Day..."

If Halford's would do one of these as a kit for a Mondeo it would be the must have Xmas prezzie!
 

Give the man a medal, reimburse him for the cost of the cartridges used and leave the corpse at the side of the road for the trash men to pick up next day.
I'm curiously devoid of any hand-wringing angst over the fate of that burglar, as you may detect!
If you dance with the devil etc. . .
 

We have crime because we tolerate it. And when a dispatcher (civilian, no doubt) tells a caller NOT to fight back when the caller is ready and able to do so, we are tolerating crime. I'm with the previous poster--take up a collection and reimburse the good citizen for the cost of his ammo and any legal expenses.
 

Don't try to steal, and you'll never be in danger. If that was my neighbour, I'd clap him on the back and thank him for taking the hard road and doing what is right.
 

This is really a matter of perspective.

I live in South Africa. In this country a home invasion/burglary all to often includes brutal rape, torture and murder of those who live in the home in question.

Keep on pushing the line that ordinary folks should hide under the bed and not actively protect themselves and their peers and you too can look forward to the horror that takes place in our country on a daily basis.

I too think the old codger ought to get a medal. Would love to have him for a next door neighbour.
 

Strangely enough I'm not that impressed with the despatcher. I get the impression that his almost preternatural calm in dealing with the incident actually exacerbated the situation, possibly increasing the caller's frustration and possible belief that the call wasn't being treated urgently. He seemed to be using almost any tack to keep the caller on the line "What colour is the house?" "WHAT COLOUR IS THE HOUSE?!?! I JUST GAVE YOU THE ADDRESS MORON!" I'm not suggesting that he should have ran screaming around the control room but a little more emotion in dealing with the call may have made the caller think it was being treated seriously and possibly put him off going outside and slotting the burgling scum like he did. . . . just my opinion of course.
 

I`m impressed by the intelligent and comprehensive newspaper account.Why cant we have that type of reporting in our country?
 

Well done to the old guy!. A guy named John Lott has done loads of research that indicates that that the more armed citizens (citizen taken to mean a non felon who pays taxes/owns property) an area has the lower its crime rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lott). Rob, Twickenham
 

How cruel you all are! The 'criminals' in this case were really victims - victims of society. You can't blame them for their actions; they were doubtless very badly brought up. Really, I blame their parents.

Surely you all see that the holistic solution is to track down and shoot their parents?

Ahem.

Apropos my previous comments about an associate of mine who's been standing up to the chavscum rampaging through his neighbourhood, he's just been told by the incoming community policing desk jockey that his confronting and filming of the yobs is exacerbating the situation! So the advice from his local Constabulary now boils down to "Turn off the lights and hide under the bed", and the assistance received is that they send someone round two days later to give him a crime number for the latest batch of damage.

He's in possession of a shotgun, by the way. How do you think that story is going to end?
 

I think the call taker did a remarkable job. He could have been a little more forceful when the guy threatened to go outside, hindsight is a beautiful thing I guess.
 

No property is worth shooting someone for.

bullshit!!

It's not about property is it; it's about the sanctity of a person's home. That most definitely is worth shooting someone for.
 

At last an example of community policing that makes sense. This beats the heck out of a neighborhood watch meeting, after the fact. The western world has a serious crime problem that is recognized by most citizens and police officers. Unfortunately most politicians and some police executives feel that recording the incidence of crime and measuring it from year to year is the way to go. Felons should be made aware that their chosen vocation is very dangerous.
 

I wish he lived next door to me. I've had my car stolen, my moped thrown down the stairs, a radio stolen for my car, I've been burgaled twice.

It's simple. A dead burglar is one less burglar.

If you are waiting on the police to sort it out then you are a fool. They are mearly purveyers of crime numbers
 

Well, to be frank, I feel sorry for the shooter (I won't say offender as to me he isn't). He did what he thought was right as a law abiding citizen to protect someones property. He is elderly and there were 2 of them half of his age. Chances are they were armed too, although maybe not with a firearm but it is worth considering. Not to mention he will still have to live with what he did, even if it was lawful. It would be more shameful than the laws here in the UK if he is charged.
 

Regarding the Tornado and the police speed trap, I wouldn't be so gullible ;)

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/radar.asp
 

Ah, the tape. I've heard it before now.

Setting aside the whole conversation for just a moment, the shooter knew the burglars had a crowbar at the least. He went out to confront them (wisely or unwisely), the burglars came towards him, and he shot them, on his own lawn. Whether or not Texas' no duty to retreat law applies to your neighbor's property isn't actually the issue. Close quarters with a blunt instrument such as a crowbar is moral (and legal, here in the states) self-defense.

I do firmly believe the shooting was both moral and technically legal.

Unfortunately for him, the tape and the publicity is likely to hang him. Another poster on another blog made the point that he should have called 911 or stepped outside with the shotgun, but not both, and I have to agree.

Tell the police, truthfully, that you confronted the burglars since you feared for your neighbors' lives, and shot when you feared for your own, and we wouldn't all be discussing this on the web.
 

The dispatcher did tell him that he would be shot if he went outside. Probably meant he was in fear of his life... It's going to come down to the actions of the suspects when they were challenged.
 

> No property is worth shooting someone for.

bullshit!!

It's not about property is it; it's about the sanctity of a person's home. That most definitely is worth shooting someone for.

It's more important than that. Civilization exists because of the trust between members of that civilization.

Theft of property attacks that trust and attacks civilization.

If you lived in a society where all your goods were freely up for grabs to those who wanted it, would you bother trying to earn anything for yourself? Or would you become a taker yourself?

A rich society exists because the society protects those who make the wealth and thus makes us all wealthier.

Put up with thieves at your own peril. Shooting is too good for them.
 

Off Topic, I know, but the police arbitration tribunal has come to a decision over our pay: a 2.5% increase! Paltry and insulting.

Check it out on the Pol Fed website.

Disgruntled Northern Bobby.
 

Looks like the link for the newspaper article is dead.

Also checked out the website the audio is hosted (Podblanc)and it looks like some stupid white supremacist site, which promotes the killing of black people.
Graphic is also of a gun with a monkey in the sights. I know its not intentional and way off topic but a bit uncomfortable mate.
 

A friend of mine who lives in a village just outside Cambridge told me the story and an American Air Force Colonel who lived in the same village and had been the subject of 4 burglaries over a 5 month period. After no real action by Police he posted signs at the back and front of his property to the effect that "It will be assumed that anyone entering these premises as a trespasser is voluntarily surrending his civil/human rights." The only comment from the local bill was that he remove that part that read "There is nothing in this house worth dying for." It may be coincidence but in the next 2 years he lived in that village, he never even had a bit of paper littering his front garden. There may be a message in their somewhere.
 

Well well well ... They got what they had coming to them ...

NOBODY told them to burgle the house..

Take heed of the poster from South Africa...

Instant Justice to be dished out to offenders caught breaking into dwellings .. Cause we all know the Clown Prosection Service cant prosecute Jack... And the court will wring there hands and place them on a supervision order.. A good Shoeing they remember.
 

I think that the 'shooter' in this case was wrong to kill the burglars. For sure burglars are nasty individuals and deserve punishment, either through the legal process or hands on, but to kill them?
The 'shooter' was told numerous times to stay in the house and report to Police what was going on as Police were on their way. The only danger the 'shooter' was in, was the danger he put himself in when he went outside, against best advice of the calm operator. From listening to the call the 'shooter' will have a hard job justifying his actions in the cold light of day.
 

Got to echo Anonymous 9.40... I wondered what the picture of the monkey on the graphic was all about, then I checked out www.podblanc.com. It is a white supremacist site which dehumanises black people, Jews and others, and glories in their killing. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the story you're pointing us towards, the colour of the burglars is immaterial. Clearly not to podblanc though - to whom they are 'monkeys', 'coons', and lots of other similar stuff they use on their site. Sick stuff.
 

You've absolutely got a right to defend yourself in your own home, but these burglars were in a neighbour's house and posed no threat to him. What he was doing was carrying out vigilante justice over a mere burglary. His life wasn't in danger. He should get the same sentence as a common murderer because that's all he is.
 

Col and Stevie can choose to live in places where criminals are excused and allowed to do as they will, while I prefer to live in a place where criminals live in fear.

Just don't ever bring your stupid and sad ideas to my home when you find yours completely unlivable.
 

Extreme Neighbourhood Watch, where do I sign up?