The Policeman's Blog

Yay, first. Are we not just a laughing stock?
 

In our station all they seem to do is stay in the office and play on the computers. I must say though that when asked by comms to do a job they always seem to have a meeting with about another three PCSO's. Conveniant or what....
 

"Peter Hitchens has written about how useless the police are "

Aye, well.

If it wasn't due to the fact that it was the very "liberal press" and "left wing commentators" like bloody Hitchens, that fought tooth and nail to get rid of the "suss" laws, to make the police "more accountable and transparent" in their dealings with the public, and increase the rights of the accused, which ended up with the flood of paperwork that stops them dealing with the bucks/Neds/Whatever, then he would have nothing to complain about would he?

Bundesmarine Polizei.
 

To Bundesmarine Polizei

You're not confusing Peter Hitchens with his brother Christopher are you?
 

I'm trying to get "baby G" a job with Thames Valley Police as a PCSO.
He has his own police tricycle and loves going out on the streets - out more than most PCSOs.
He is only one year old but I feel will be an ideal co-ordinator between fellow babies in the nursery and the Police, strengthening a partnership approach to tackle playground bullying and robberies of toys.
Can't be any dafter than a PCSO on skateboard.
Can't be any dafter than employing 16 year old PCSOs - they and baby G will need an appropriate adult before they can give a statement and go to court.

Ricky G
 

It's this sort of stuff that makes my blood boil!

As correctly stated a couple of posts above, this idiot is one of those who campaigned to have the police become more accountable and less powerful, then cry when we have no powers to deal with the 'feral youth' that seem to roam the streets.

To say we are all useless is a huge insult. 90% of the police are useless, but I will fight all day, every day for frontline officers, who the majority of, are hard working and under resoursed. Sadly we probable make up 5% of the modern police. Not a lot we can do there then.

As for PCSO's, always been against them, and get even more irritated when i walk past their office and see 9 of them all sat on computers, and as anon said at 8:58am, when asked to go out all of them seem to be in a meeting together.

The other day a colleague of mine saw 2 PCSO's driving a liveried carrier about. My sister is a call taker for a local force and she was telling me that a PCSO tried to ring a negative line rape* in last week. This is the quality of some of the recruits, she had no idea of how this was supposed to be dealt with.

*She was 'reassuring' someone who was mentally ill, who then tried to report a historic rape from 1982.
 

Reading the article through to the end, it's not the 'beat' (or non beat) offices that are the cause. It's the leftie powder puff attitudes that have diseased this country.

Bring back Judge Dredd.
 

A Home Office spokesman said detecting crime and handing out penalty notices was not the prime function of PCSOs.

He said: "To attempt to measure their success solely by looking at the number of penalty notices and crimes they detect is to miss the point.

This was in the article regards PCSO's detecting a crime every six years. I had to laugh at the irony of it really. Still, processing the tickets keeps a street dodger in the office I suppose.
 

"The other day a colleague of mine saw 2 PCSO's driving a liveried carrier about"

....Which we have repeatedly and categorically been told they are NOT authorised or allowed to do. Two days ago as I was entering the nick to start a shift one of our PCSO's (a nice young man with less than 1 years service in that role) kindly asked if I would move a panda for him because his car was blocked in. I replied that as I was only a warranted police officer, with 6 weeks short of 2 years service and had not yet been given my driving course, I sadly would be unable to oblige. His repy was "Oh that's ok, I'll move it myself. I'm authorised to drive cars and small vans"
I stood briefly for a short time with my mouth open and nothing coming out before throwing my hands in the air and going inside to read all my e-mails from the 9-5 brigade detailing how crap/lazy/neglectful I am !!!

It's like a job.......only different.
 

I'm not sure about that average.. totalling my nicks over the past 3 months I have 18 to my name!

Compared to some other officers though I can use my radio and also even see the light of day in a marked vehicle....
 

To Anonymous, 10:21 a.m.

I repeat, are you sure you're not confusing Peter Hitchens with his leftwing
brother, Peter
 

To Anonymous, 10:21 a.m.

I repeat, are you sure you're not confusing Peter Hitchens with his leftwing
brother, Christopher?
 

b ginnity, i think he/she is.
mind you, p hitchens was a revolutionary socialist 30 years ago; i don't know when the pressure for PACE etc started but i imagine he was one of the loudmouths shouting for it.
be careful what you wish for, is all i can say :-)
 

A Home Office spokesman said detecting crime and handing out penalty notices was not the prime function of PCSOs.

He said: "To attempt to measure their success solely by looking at the number of penalty notices and crimes they detect is to miss the point"

Isn't this similar to one of John PEEL's policing principles, except delete PCSO and insert Police Constable??? And yet, this is exactly how the current open and accountable Police Service is measured, and we are told we are measured in this way so the govt can account for how the public purse is spent........except when it comes to their own offspring, the PCSO. Surely the police should be measured on the lack of crime?????

Also Peter Hitchens, whilst he mouths off at the Police, he sites no examples of his personal dealings with us, only exploits and exagerates the small minority of reports from the media that put us in a bad light. We do alot of good, but that is always shadowed as to investigate crime, we will have to upset people, whether its the offender by taking away his liberty, or the ignorant motorist who doesn't care if there has been a fatal road accident down the road, "this is the way I always go home".

We are damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

I also bore crims with my "Personal responsibility" lecture. Leave that one with you.
 

Peter Hitchens freely admits he was wrong 30 years ago, unlike so many other so-called "former" Marxists/Communists who are now part of the politico-journalistic machine.
 

I think you mean Sir Robert Peel. John Peel was a DJ. He would still be better at running a police force though than most of the senior management with 2 years street experience.
 

Sadly, I think it's a fair point when Hitchens says that the law-abiding are likely to get arrested these days if they defend themselves against thugs.

Now, if there were only a handful of examples of this, then we could call it an aberration, but unfortunately it is far too common these days to be that.

The overriding priority of the police is now obviously to get 'detections' and not to protect anyone. A lot of law-abiding people still believe the police are what they were 10+ years ago, so they will freely admit to having defended themselves:

MOP, "Yes, officer, they set upon me with baseball bats and as my skull cracked I managed to punch one of them"

Police officer, "Well, these youths deny attacking you at all, and if it's shown not on CCTV these days, we don't really bother. But by your own admission you assaulted one of them. So, you are under arrest, Sir - prepare to watch your job, marriage, and life in general go down the plughole.
But, look on the bright side - at least you will be contributing to statistics that show a marvellous increase in violent crime detection rates!'
 

To make matters worse, though it has to do with the criminal justice system rather than the police specifically, this report indicates that the killer of headmaster Philip Lawrence could well be out next year, without fear of deportation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/
england/london/6955071.stm

Whatever Hitchens's politics and dodgy past, his book A Brief History of Crime effectively supports David Fraser's A Land Fit for Criminals that PC Dave recommends, I seem to recall.

However, Hitchens says about the mainstream parties, "Stop voting for them and instead build political parties that care about us."

The statement does beg some questions, e.g. who is going to do the building, what will they build and how will they counter any opposition from the EU?

Or maybe this is all just a carrot-and-stick ploy to get everyone to beg for a europol Gestapo to replace the existing police forces and restore law and order at any price - e.g. full absorption into the EU and total break-up of Britain into EU regions governed directly from Brussels?
 

How does a PCSO "Solve" a crime?

How a PCSO "solves" a crime I do not know, seeing as they cannot take a statement, arrest a suspect, interview a suspect, prepare a case file or be the officer in the case at Court. This will remain a mystery to me.
 

PCSO's at my nick have started to run a mobile skate park for kids, one day a week on their beat.
We the Police have secured funding for this park, skate boards and all the required protection pads.

What the hell is that all about?
Employing people to baby sit teenagers.
The idea that if they are busy skating then they wont be out committing crime.

Well that ain't are bloody job!
If they are out breaking the law it's the job of the Police to deal with it, not keep them amused during the school holidays.
Jobs shagged!!
 

God it's so depressing. Surely the police themselves ,must be depressed at this state of affairs.
This country has been ruined by the cancer of political correctness and herbal tea drinking, yoghurt eating, sandal wearing liberal tree huggers who don't live in the real world. Not to mention the human rights act, no discipline at school and an army of the underclass who know the state will provide for everything. They have no fear or respect for the police, I mean why should they?
 

come and work in rural basingstoke the pcso there get to sandbag in the area car due to shortges of police officers. oh i think they call it an attatchment
 

I thought PCSO's were meant to be a visible presence on the streets whilst the salaried police sat in offices filling in forms?

I think PCSO's are a great idea. The problem is the word "police", which they aren't.
 

Please can we stop refering to them as PCSO..............They are CSO........drop the police bit
 

Where's the blue light supposed to go, that's what I want to know.
 

Thank God we dont have PCSOs in Jockland, yet.Although I fear they are going to be 'the way forward'. i.e. cost cutting.
5 years and 46 weeks to the pension.
 

The Teachers have their teaching assistants...
The Nurses have their auxiliaries.

We have our C3POs.

We need to foister 2nd class cheap labour on our MPs.
You know - a spotty teenager who doesnt need the mortgage paying on his second home or a raft of expenses to claim. Someone who can do a MPs job "meeting and greeting" the public - eyes and ears blah blah...
Pay him or her half what an MP is on to do the same job.

Then when MPs realise that
(1) These CMPS ( Community MPs ) create twice as much work.
(2) Are likely to take over their job at half the pay and half the over-generous expenses.
(3) Fook everything up
(4) Can't do anything worthwhile

Then maybe they will realise that paying for a PC is far better value for money.

PS - This is not a dig at the may decent people who have become C3POs - but a dig at the Government that has foistered an ill-conceived bad planned and appalling executed scheme on the Police Service.
Next time you make a mistake at 2am whilst in a rush with an overflowing crime list - just remember people at the Home Office on 9-5 days paid £100s of K a year to devise this policy and procedure have "dropped a far more monumental bollock".!
 

Lets face the truth here shall we , you cannot blame people for getting themselves a perfectly good job sat around the nick all day and playing on the computers ( had to be careful there I nearly put ' with the PCs '! ) Blame the people who let them get away with it! or the Government who insist upon them having such an easy life.
After all never ever forget that THIS JOKES A JOB !!
 

^^^
And pound to a penny, when the next Tory leader (I don't assume it'll be Cameron) finally gets round to telling 'P'CSOs to get their skinny pimpled arses out on the streets, the buggers'll strike.
 

SKATEBOARDS! Thing of the past. I hope this scheme has been properly rik assessed. I'm lovin the retro helmet as well.
I think we should fire him out of a cannon from the station car park into a trouble with youths hotspot where he might take a few out. The new police weapon of respect the pCSO V2 rocket.
As for the job, I'm officially approaching the Laissez faire period of my career where I smile politely at everyone and let everything take its course and bot worry too much about anything.

A. Harvey
 

CSO's driving marked vehicles..... recently a collegue of mine left a rather important bit of kit in a carrier. No problem, we'll dig it out. Cue three hours of trying to track the damn bus down. Eventually trace it to a CSO base on the ground where in the back is his kit. Great! Doors are locked. Are the keys in the rack inside so the OCU resource can utilised at a moments notice? No. After going through three (locked) offices, i eventually found the keys buried under three box files in a cupboard in an office for the sole use of..... CSO's. Last driver in the log? CSO S.xxxx. Not seen him on foot for over six months. Always frapping around doing shag all in a minibus by himself.
CSO's a reasonable idea that has been expanded too quickly and had WAY too much money invested in it. Get shot of them, have more real police and save on the shift allowances cos we get paid peanuts but can actually nick people.
 

I love how they come up with these figures. Lets just take the total number of people arrested and then divide that by 140,000 because surely EVERY warranted police officer and person over the rank of inspector nicks someone don't they????

And as for the PCSO being trained to ride a scateboard and look 'cool' - its stunts like that which helped that particular force become the complete and utter farce it is today, which is why I left and now work in another force where I can do the same job for £6k more, free travel, and have plenty of backup if things go tits up. Unlike being the only copper walking around one of Hampshires less pleasant south coast cities, which happened on more than a few occasions in my probabtion.

TPT anyone???
 

I think it sums up how stupid the "Police Service" is perfectly. It's like that picture of the poor guy on the Segway.

The Police media morons think people will be impressed at how up to date and with it the Police are.

I think almost all the public from left to right on the political specturm, and probably 90% of working coppers think it makes Police Officers look stupid. It makes me cringe.

It was quite right to do something about the dodgy coppers in the system.

However, typically they've done the wrong thing. Rather than simply go after the (very few) bent coppers or the odd bent department (e.g. WMids Special Crimes in the 1980s) with a machine gun, they've left them alone and put bucketloads of paperwork in. Now being a "bent copper" appears to be okay, but not filling forms in or telling an off key joke is a hanging offence. Madness.
 

Who exactly were 'the powers that be' trying to impress by putting a policeman (apologies if he is a PCSO) on a skateboard?

I ask because I am a member of the public and I for one am not impressed at this, in fact I think it's a joke and makes the police look ridiculous.

Having read the comments posted here by police officers I note that most of them also think it's a joke, an expensive joke.

So I ask again exactly who were the powers that be trying to impress by sanctioning that, perhaps the yobs and ne'er do wells.

If so then I for one am totally amazed that this is what the police has been reduced to......pandering and catering to scumbags.
 

"I repeat, are you sure you're not confusing Peter Hitchens with his leftwing
brother, Christopher?
# posted by B Ginnity : 12:46 PM"

I did not say WHICH Hitchen. But if they are the same family then....Painting with tar brushes, etc.

Bundesmarine Polizei.
 

Hitchens is right. The Police are a laughing stock and useless. It seems to me though having read the article (and his book "The Abolition of Liberty" which goes into more detail) that he agrees with you ; he doesn't like PACE either, he thinks response policing is a nonsense, there is too much touchy-feely diversity crap, not enough front line Officers etc.

"The entire force is so badly led and follows such misguided priorities that it is effectively useless."

No-one doubts there are hard working Officers who do their best. Just not very many out there any more :(
 

The P should be dropped from PCSO, I believe it gives a false impression to the public of what they can and can't do. They are there to support the community, not to investigate crime, isn't that what they were brought in for originally.

As for driving marked police vehicles, don't get me started. If they were to come across an incident whilst out driving around, the public would expect a POLICE officer to deal not a CSO.

CSO's are there to provide a presence in the community hence their title, get out walking and talking to the public and leave police officers to do what they do best.

Rumour in our force is that everyone will have to do 2 years as a CSO before becoming a PC, god help us!
 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Fair-Police-Pay/

sign this. With our all powerful federation and excellent employment rights we don't have much else.
 

"Rumour in our force is that everyone will have to do 2 years as a CSO before becoming a PC, god help us!
# posted by Anonymous : 10:36 AM"

It was suggested to me when I joined in 79, that I do two years as a special. Same thing.

(I didn't. Got straight in. It was good those days.)

Bundesmarine Polizei.
 

I've always thought the reason they were called "Police Community Service Officers" - a stupid name - is so that ACPO and the Government and the like can say things about "increasing the number of Police .... Officers".

Thus dumb people will assume they mean proper coppers.
 

"Police officer, "Well, these youths deny attacking you at all, and if it's shown not on CCTV these days, we don't really bother. But by your own admission you assaulted one of them. So, you are under arrest, Sir - prepare to watch your job, marriage, and life in general go down the plughole."

Take a look at the end of this story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6956549.stm

Bet whichever officer arrested "Magazine reader John" is cursing the fact that CCTV came to light. I mean, how's he/she going to meet his/her targets now? Oh yeah, that's right - just go and arrest some more unsuspecting and trusting law-biding people (aka. suckers).
 

There must be an awful lot of poor police officers out there if were are arresting people for defending themselves. What about the old common law priciples of self defence and S.3 Criminal Law Act 1967 concerning the use of force and the prevention of offences and execution of arrests? I have dealt with dozens of similar incidents and never convicted or cautioned an "innocent" memeber of the public. What is usually conviently missed for these sorts of reports is that the MOP goes beyond the reasonable and beats the offender half to death. Something we as the police would also be procecuted and imprisoned for if we did it...
 

"What is usually conviently missed for these sorts of reports is that the MOP goes beyond the reasonable and beats the offender half to death. Something we as the police would also be procecuted and imprisoned for if we did it..."


Unfortunately, the account I linked to was very clear - the police charged the guy with GBH. He shouldn't have been charged with GBH, as the CCTV eventually made very clear.

Many people are concerned about this, not least Lord Stevens, who expressed his concern a couple of years ago.

So, perhaps you personally might not be inclined to charge someone defending themselves, but I think it is clear that more and more such people in such circumstances are being charged.

Who knows why - perhaps because there is no room for discretion these days, or that a few may see it as an easy way to hit their targets.
 

I'm a member of the Great British public. I no longer live in the UK though, but when I return I carry a 'push blade' everywhere I go. Its got to the point where I feel the UK is a country with no protection from the law. If I see a situation where someone is in trouble or I am threatened for no reason I defend myself with all force possible (you can forget 'reasonable' in this society). I have no reservation in taking the life of some teenage, knife wielding thug. And unlike most 'have a go' Joe Publics...I will not wait around for you lot to show up (if even you do). I would like to know what you think of my comments, particularly as I am a specialist with an FBI task group on the west coast of the USA. Here it's zero tolerance!
 

PCSO should stand for Pathetic Cop Substitute Officer
 

Has anyone else seen the video of a PCSO practising his training? It's on my blog - basically just putting his arms up and saying "stop fighting". Even they seem to find it ludicrous.
 

"I will not wait around for you lot to show up (if even you do)"

I wouldn't carry a knife myself, but if I had to defend myself, I would of course do it. Then I would get the heck out of there before the police turned up.

I am absolutely not talking about being a psycho and beating a guy to death who has kicked you in the shin. No, I am just talking about a situation where proportionate force is used.

It's as Hitchens says, the police are neutral. You are a statistic, and given that all the chavs know their way around the law, and we don't, it seems likely that you'd get arrested, and then charged. And even if you were found innocent by a jury, God knows what you would have lost in the meantime.

I think most of us rely on our reputations in our jobs, and if charged with assault or GBH, that would be it. I think most people don't know what the police have become, and so would incorrectly assume that you are a violent scumbag. Goodbye job, and as most industries are comparatively small (word gets around), in all likelihood goodbye future prospects.

Still, we can all 'console' ourselves with the fact that if an incident did occur and you had to defend yourself, given 999 response times, it is unlikely that the police would turn up in time to either save you or arrest you for defending yourself.

Unfortunately, unless you have read DC's book and kept an eye on what the police force has become, most law-abiding people would stick around under the mistaken assumption that the police would give them a pat on the back. Hah!
 

bloggsy... awesome video - laughed my a*se off. have just ordered your book, together with dave's
 

May I tell you, I love the sensation of falling falling
 

Anonymous 6.58 - a charge of GBH would have to go through the crown prosecution service. While you're having a go at the police, at least chuck a bit of the blame their way too eh?
 

"Anonymous 6.58 - a charge of GBH would have to go through the crown prosecution service. While you're having a go at the police, at least chuck a bit of the blame their way too eh?"

I think the CPS would be quite happy to string a law-abiding person up by the gonads - after all, they are lawyers. But at least we used to be able to rely on the police.

Now, I am not saying all individual police officers like it, but I must admit I am very disappointed with the utter lack of any kind of noise about this coming out of police ranks.

Of course, there's DC and a few others who have really helped to let us know why things are the way they are. But you'd have thought the many more police officers would have surreptitiously (can't forget the mortgage, of course) kicked up a fuss - perhaps by writing a blog; perhaps by telling a newspaper what a mess things are in; etc; etc.

And what happened to the bl**dy Police Federation?

I think I am right that they did belatedly whisper about absurd arrests at their last conference (correct me if I am wrong), but if there were more real peelers about, I think we'd have seen a lot more of a stink.

So, for me, any police officer who is not enthusiastically going along with this nonsense, is not using the law-abiding to hit targets, and is perhaps doing his little bit to let everyone know what is happening , is absolved from blame (bet you feel relieved!).

But as for the rest - what a shower of muck...
 

I have a question from a MOP to any police officer who cares to answer:

Suppose there is a situation where a police officer believes a person is innocent (i.e. is really the victim in the situation or was just defending himself etc).
Couldn't he make it clear, in his report to the CPS, that that person should not be charged? I believe that the police are allowed to make recommendations in their reports, or am I wrong?
If the person is taken to court, why isn't the officer who dealt with the case called by the defence to testify that, in his (or their) opinion, the person used reasonable force to defend themselves or to detain a burglar/shoplifter.
If the testimony was the honest opinion, then how could anybody quarrel with him giving it, since it is given under oath?
Any pressure from senior officers not to give evidence or to tell a different story would be seen as pressure to commit perjury.

Any officer doing this would be able to tell, in open court, how targets were forcing them to arrest innocent people.

Alternatively, they could refuse to arrest people they thought were innocent. That way, they would regain the respect they once had and might force a change in the system.

Just a thought!
 

You all make it sound as though we just can't be arsed to turn up! it's not like that we aren't sitting around eating pizza ignoring calls half the time we don't even get a chance to eat. it's simply this, the sustems set up in dealing with calls are inadequate, you can't even walk into the majority of police stations in my force you have to go trhough a long winded call centre. when you have 2 police officers covering 4 towns which is normal where i work you cannot expect us to be there within seconds....but YES you should expect that and that is what you deserve as do we but please don't blame the bobby on the beat blame the halfwits who run the organisation and beyond!!!!
 

Assault with a Deadly Sausage:

So, police finally targeted a chav who had been victimising an old man. Yeah!

But who the heck decided that it would be a good idea to use this particular 'incident' to go after him:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6958826.stm


Perhaps the CPS and police thought that they just weren't enough of a laughing stock as it is, and that the public should be made aware of just how buffoon-like they really can be.

You just have to wonder at the sanity of some people...
 

Round these here parts the locals call PCSO's SPAM (as they're not real pork)
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6958429.stm

(Excuse the language, but) For f*cks sake...

I deliberately leave my wireless access point unsecured (it is outside of my firewall, don't you know!). But now anyone who is nearby could now be arrested for, er...

...loitering with a laptop with intent to browse the Internet?

Thank God for those eagle-eyed PSCOs and that tw*t of a Det Constable. I now feel safe in my bed!

What a load of sh*t.

Still, detections, detections, detections. What does a criminal record for an 'otherwise' (I feel fairly confident in saying) law-abiding MoP matter when you have got targets to meet?
 

I personally am not a PCSO fan, there is a place for them but not at the cost of serving officers and as for skate boards...come on what a waste of money
 

The PCSO dont leave our office either always busy tapping away at the computer for 9/10 hours a day. And ive never seen them doing any patrol either, they've always got a meeting to go to and an excuse not to work the shift there supposed to. a waste of space in my opinion and a waste of £24000 per year (as im led to believe)!
 

I was in the police in the UK for 10 yrs.

Almost all officers of a rank higher than Inspector are terrified of bad press. To avoid bad press decisive action on almost any issue is avoided at all costs. Problems such as "yoof" disorder (yobs taking over estates and town centres) are dealt with by fudging the issue. They will talk about “working in partnership” and “multi agency approach” and in the end nothing will be done. They will have meetings and talk strategy but the yobs will not be dealt with. The poor public get fed up and their pleas for help are ignored as senior officers do everything they can to avoid dealing with the issue. (sound familiar?).

When Joe Public sees a gang of drunken yobs causing problems and calls the police they want to see the Old Bill turn up and tell them to clear off. If they don’t or there is any lip or disorder the public expect their police to lock the yobs up. And if the yobs don’t want to be locked up, tough. That’s what the cops have handcuffs, batons and CS spray for. If the yobs don’t like getting locked up then don’t make peoples lives a misery.

Police “managers” hate this because it’s high risk. They will avoid it at all costs but all will talk about going “toe to toe” with the yobs. The complaints from scum parents who had no idea where their feral children were or what they were doing will come in thick and fast (all with an eye to a bit of compensation or trying to distract the courts) and if one of the yobs gets hurt because he/she was fighting with the officers there will be no end of “nasty policeman” stories in the press.

If a pro-active Constable or Sergeant takes it on themselves to stop whilst on patrol and deal with such a group of yobs and a situation develops it will be “did you really have to arrest them?” “how many members of the public had actually complained to you about them?” and his/her career will be on hold for a year until all the managers backside covering reviews and audits audit’s are complete.

Far less risky and easier to drive past and ignore it. If the incident comes in on 999 and nobody is actually being killed (bad press) then just log the call and have some meetings about it with the council or a “yoof” worker. Send a PCSO out the next day when the yobs are in bed to clear the call as “all quiet”.

Only a small percentage (12% in my old force) of police actually “police” (patrol and lock up crims). Police managers hate this function (and custody), because that is where the fast time decisions under extreme pressure have to be made, and consequently cut it to the bone. Almost no opportunity for promotion comes from this field. Running skate parks and discos is good for promotion as is anything to do with our old friend Diversity. Catching crooks isn’t.

That’s how the Police works.

Rant over. Carry On Please
 

As a 15 year street bobby watching the total utter decay of our service going on all around me I feel physically sick looking at this. What next? maybe a PCSO going gangsta and jigging down the street in a bandana or turning 'emo' and grunging it up in the Mosh pit? Whoever thought of this should just leave quietly.
 

"Only a small percentage (12% in my old force) of police actually “police” (patrol and lock up crims)."

This is pretty shocking. It is incredible to think that 88% of police are not actually real police at all. Greeeeeat...


"Almost no opportunity for promotion comes from this field."

It is difficult to believe that field experience and success is not the prime (only?) factor that is considered for promotion. This has got to be the main reason that we seem to have such a bunch of idiots running the police.

I am amazed that the media hasn't really got it's teeth into these two facts.
 

I suggested to you all many months ago that it was time for police labour action. You could go on a paperwork strike, or really embarass your employers by declaring a labour action where you only engaged in real policing.

Really, if you don't have the balls to start taking action, if your pensions are more important to you, then you deserve the public's contempt.
 

have to agree with the Hitch. last time i saw a real copper in my area was probably well over a year ago.

instead i see useless PCSO officers pleading with drunken louts and being utterly ineffective.
 

Hitchens writes: "There are no bobbies, just uniformed social workers, and there has been no beat since Roy Jenkins abolished it 40 years ago."


whats Hitchens on about there? can somebody enlighten me about that?
was the bobby on the beat really abolished by Roy Jenkins?
 

10 years of Labour and you end up with 11 year olds being shot dead in the street.

utterly fucking disgusting.

thing is - i dont think "hug a hoodie" Call-me-Dave has any answer.

it would be a start if at least ONE politician started calling for the reintroduction of the death penalty.
 

i sorted out a S30 on notorious area in my neck of the woods...

the new Inspector, who was worldly wise in the politics of not upsetting young people, tried to block it...the supt almost wavered

he failed, S30 invoked....area transformed until it expired 6 months later, i moved posts.....yobs back in big time

im assured that the PCSO's are babysitting them all now and local shops are asking what the hell is going on
 

I am surprised that the Mail on Sunday managed to find a picture of a PCSO over the age of seventeen, but that's another matter.

I was hoping that by now you might have posted about the Rhys Jones murder and offered some thoughts to the solutions about gang/drug culture.
 

My first post. I have 10 years in now and all done as a front line PC. I had thought about going for my Sgt's but to be honest with you I don't feel like I want to contribute to the organisation anymore. All I want to do is get my wages. I'm sorry to say it but at the moment I feel embarrassed about the organisation I work for. It's a real shame because my shift, all 4 of us hahaha, have really tried our best but it's just demoralising day in day out. We are run ragged whilst(p)CSO's wander about the nick without a care in the world (or workload).
 

I live in East Kilbride and we do not call the police for several reasons
1 They don't come out at once but come out when the criminals are long gone.
2 They do not arrest criminals but motorists only.
3 Crime is not high on their agenda.
4 Whats the point.
 

An example of why we are fighting a losing battle.
0300hrs MOP reports car racing in residential street and then ramming gates to childrens playground. Car set on fire by two youths, descriptions given and MOP sees males enter address nearby.
Call graded as non-urgent but being Traffic we respond immediately and arrive just as the car is well lit.
Get index plates but not smv on PNC.
MOP approaches us and confirms he will give a statement. CCTV evidence of said males entering the property (camera is adjacent to the property).
Further evidence of both males two hours earlier breaking in to the car and is confirmed smv by r/o.
Enter address and five arrested sus theft mv; arson and crim damage. Statements from MOP and r/o obtained; handover completed.
Property belonging to r/o in the address seized as evidence.
Guess what? All released NFA next day. Reason...no evidence!
 

anon - that's a terrible story. Who takes those decisions ?

earlier anon - "was the bobby on the beat really abolished by Roy Jenkins?"

If you read Hitchens 'Brief History of Crime' it was under Jenkins (IMHO the Home Secretary with the greatest influence on the UK law and order disaster) that preventative 'beat policing' was dropped in favour of reactive 'squad car' policing - as an experiment, in Kirkby New Town. You get the impression they were short of recruits and there was also that naive Sixties optimism of 'its new so it must be better'. Experiment was deemed to be a success and that's where the bobby went.

By the way, is it just me, or is Lancashire assistant chief constable Jerry Graham a total and utter wazzock ?

Acting assistant chief constable of Lancashire Police, Jerry Graham, said: "This is a tragic incident which has resulted in the senseless loss of a young and vibrant woman. Lancashire Constabulary sends its sincerest condolences to Sophie's family and friends at this difficult time.

"There are, of course, young people in Lancashire and, as we have seen in recent times, all over the country who are intent on disrupting the lives of law-abiding citizens. In the very worst cases, such as this one, their actions have devastating consequences.

"Lancashire Constabulary will not tolerate this kind of behaviour, irrespective of the age of the perpetrators, and will take a forceful approach towards tackling it, using all the powers that we have available to the full."

He added that care must be taken though not to "demonise" all young people and that there were people of all ages determined to cause trouble.

"There is a significant proportion of young people who do not engage in this kind of behaviour and are victims themselves," he said.

"Here in Lancashire, we think it is important not to negatively stereotype all of our young people when this kind of incident occurs."

So a girl's kicked to death and he think's its important not to stereotype anyone. Could I negatively stereotype him as a useless cretin ?
 

I'm a cop.

I have read the negative comments on this particular thread about us cops.
I really wish the public could see how we have to work. The comments would stop, I know that for a fact and I just wish some of you could come out in the patrol car for a shift with me, you'll wonder how we put up with it all and manage.


As for the pensions comment earlier - would you have the balls to put your livelihood on the line ?
I'll bet not. You will have kids/wife depending on you earning a crust.

We cops don't like the way things are.
I don't like filling in millions of forms for each incident I go to.
I hate getting to an incident hours after it has happened.
I hate being one of only two cops on duty covering a vast area when really, there should be around 10 of you on the shift.
I hate seeing bad guys being released from court after committing some heinous crime that you put heart and soul into solving, all because the Judge/Magistrate/ Sheriff is on another planet.
I hate the fact there are no jail spaces for the bad gys when we do catch em.
I hate going to ongoing violent incidents knowing that I'll be outnumbered and outgunned and the nearest cop to help is 20 miles away.

I feel as if I am the wee Dutch boy with his finger in the dam.
When I am at work, I get run ragged from call to call, basically abused in numerous ways by everyone all day long, not a word of thanks.
The next day, there will in all likelihood be some snotty emails from bosses/the day shirkers in the office telling me how I didn't fill in the right form etc.
I'll get so mad about it, I'll want to go to their office and boot them in the balls.

Why can't I just do what we cops are meant to do ?

I feel like jacking it all in, but then think, if we didn't do this, who would ??

Joe Public, give us a break, we are trying our outmost. Write to your MP next time you wonder where all the bobbies are. Please don't moan at the one in uniform, it really isn't their fault.
 

All due respect, anon, but I stand by my comment. So many of you PCs are getting together on blogs and noticeboards, and complaining about these, and not one of you is willing to put his name on it. If you can't stare down your jobsworth overseers, you can't expect the public to he too respectfull to you.
 

"Joe Public, give us a break, we are trying our outmost. Write to your MP next time you wonder where all the bobbies are. Please don't moan at the one in uniform, it really isn't their fault."


Hmmm...yes. Personally, as I mentioned, I am just concerned about the lack of 'noise' about this issue coming from the front line officers. That's what disturbs me.

I understand why front line police officers don't 'go on strike' or quit. That would just give front line officers a bad reputation, and nobody would even want to listen to what they had to say then. But, I personally think, that front line officers should surreptitiously make their views known much more widely and loudly.


I think you are right about writing to your MP about this. This does actually work. One isolated letter definitely does not work, and rude letters definitely do not work. But politely written and firm letters IN LARGE NUMBERS do work.

Why? Of course, MPs closely monitor the number/subject of letters that their constituents write to them - and if they receive enough letters consistently enough, then they begin to get a little nervous. Basically, they get a little scared of losing their nice comfy seat in parliament where they park their useless fat arses every day.

This is obviously how special interest groups get things done. Often there are few of them, but they are organized, and they write lots of letters. And occasionally some of them might even have a bit of money to contribute to the 'right' candidate's campaign (but lots and lots of letters are often enough).

If each of us that reads this blog writes a letter, I don't honestly believe that it would be enough. But perhaps if DC could suggest it in each and every interview he does (I am sure he could contrive to get the interviewer to ask an appropriate question!), I think that might be enough if some momentum developed.
 

Oh, and just in case anyone does want to actually write to their MP about this, here's a good link:

http://www.writetothem.com/

You don't even need a stamp!
 

Anon 8:47 pm

Yes, I wish we could print our names all over these blogs - how long do you think it would be before the PSD Gestapo dragged us in ?? We would be disciplined. I kid you not.

Do you think our bosses listen to us ? No they don't. The division where I work now has less than 50% of the 'street' cops it had 18 months ago. The federation threatened to take the bosses to task about it.
Did it make a difference ?
No, not one bit. You see where I am coming from now ?

However, people like yourself, if you are willing to be as harsh with a superintendant as you are with us, that may well work.
I have known of some uncomfortable moments when a boss at a local community meeting gets it in the ear from Joe Public - they don't like it up them, hate bad press so will make efforts. I have seen that done.
As I alluded to before, Joe Public can make a difference, give it a go eh.
 

BLUE FLU ????

I AM A FRONT LINE POLICE OFFICER, I HATE BEING TREATED LIKE A CHILD, HAVING TO TELL SUPERVISION WHEN I NEED TO GO TO A NICK TO USE THE TOILET(I JOKE YOU NOT)
BE TOLD WHERE TO REF, HAVE GPS IN OUR VEHICLES FOR OUR SAFETY (IN CASE WE LIE WHERE WE ARE).
AND GET A HAVE A FED WHO DO NOT MEET OUR NEEDS.
THE PUBLIC COMPLAIN BUT IF I WHERE THE VICTIM OF CRIME I WOULD WITH THE REPSONSE.WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH BOBBIES. WE LOSE BOBBIES AND GAIN CSO'S ??????????????

WHAT CAN WE DO? HAVE A NATIONAL BLUE FLU!!
 

Reality Check.

There are members of the public on here who, with the best of intentions, urge front line officers to “do something” about the abysmal state of response (front line) policing.

Front line officers are utterly powerless to effect their organization.

Police, by law, cannot strike.
Front line officers are not valued within the organization and have no access to the Job’s corridors of power. Most of the time when we are working they are all in bed.

Some officers have referred to Professional Standards Departments (Complaints and Discipline) as the Gestapo. That is they way these units are now used by senior management. It reminds me of the Thought Police in Orwell’s 1984. Officers up and down the country are terrified of being accused of making an “inappropriate comment”. We are not talking about forming a branch of the Ku Klux Klan at the nick. Inappropriate comments for which officers are disciplined, sacked and prosecuted are throw away joke remarks in the back of a van with colleagues or in the pub after work. It’s like being accused of witchcraft. The mere allegation is enough to sink your career. Even if you keep your job you will be sent to the back of beyond from where there is no return. There is genuine concern that police vehicles are being “bugged” or that the Ambient Listening function (a function where control rooms can listen to officers using their radios without the officers knowledge) on Airwaves radios is used to trap officers who are out of favour with management. An unguarded comment taken out of context will be used against you.

Like everyone else we have mortgages to pay and families to support. It really does grip my sh*t when I lock up a drunk dole scrounger and they have more money on them than I spend on myself in two months.

Just ask yourself why none of the officers on here will identify themselves or even give enough info for suspicion to fall in their direction.

Most of us do believe in the job we do and do try hard. However please understand that the environment we work in is reminiscent to Stalin’s Soviet Union. After Stalin died Khrushchev started to tell the people what a baddie he was (killing 50 million people) and at a meeting some one shouted out “WHAT WERE YOU DOING?” Khrushchev shouted “WHO SAID THAT?”. Nobody stood up (all terrified they were next against the wall). Khrushchev said “THAT’S WHAT I WAS DOING”. Like the canteen at my force HQ.
 

"Some officers have referred to Professional Standards Departments (Complaints and Discipline) as the Gestapo. That is they way these units are now used by senior management. It reminds me of the Thought Police in Orwell’s 1984. Officers up and down the country are terrified of being accused of making an “inappropriate comment”."


You know, this is one of the main reasons I have become a 'civil libertarian'.

(Warning - rant coming!)

As we all know, civil libertarians used to be a bunch of, how can I put this, bearded, sandal wearing people, who would quite often be able to find snacks in their facial hair between meals!

But now, when an authoritarian govt (by our standards) wants to poke its nose into every nook and cranny of our lives - for the 'greater good', you understand - I get nervous.

I don't actually think Brown would turn into Stalin, or Oliver Letwin into Adolf Hitler. But how staggeringly stupid are we to build all the systems, databases, etc which will allow any future mini-Stalin (yes, we have them here too!) to stifle our activities and freedoms. Even if this future t*rd only went as far as using all that information to 'influence' our activities, that would be intolerable. After all, J.Edgar Hoover managed to exert a malevolent influence over the political process for many decades in the 'Land of the Free' (according to reputable historians). According to those historians, a number of presidents even wanted to fire him, but were unable to due to the dirt that he had on them. Not good.

Here, of course, the govt has always (to a great extent) been a servant to the British people. I don't want to see a reversal of that situation!

Anyway, I digress. For all Peelers who resent the way the character of the police force is changing from our traditional British way to God knows what, and would like to be a bit more vocal here is a link that I came across (not that I am encouraging anything, you understand!):

http://p10.hostingprod.com/@spyblog.org.uk/blog/2006/05/home_office_whistleblowers_hin.html

Relatively straightforward stuff, but ignore it at your peril!
 

the sentence for assaulting a police officer in Nu Labour Britain 2007?

two years

Guardian interview a Liverpool gang member

"I got two years for assault on a police officer and criminal damage for smashing a police van up."
 

For those members of the paying public who are interested the following applies to Police Officers

1. NO RIGHT TO STRIKE.

2. DISSENSION, and the spread of unrest is deemed to be MUTINY

Both illegal and enshrined in law, if found guilty, and believe me after PSD has finished with you there is always a finding of guilt no matter how watered down, Then either a criminal conviction which would be followed by instant dismissal, or a discipline hearing and if the Chief decides to fine you move you and hold back any promotion that you may be eligible for, for three years then the true cost of voicing an opinion becomes draconian in the extreme. Burglary would be more lucrative.

So whilst todays modern Police Service professes to be "fluffy" and "happy clappy" it, in truth, is nothing of the sort.

Consequently no Officer with a family to raise and mortgage to pay is going to stick his/her head above the parapet.

I am afraid to say that any real change will have to come from outside the Service. So get writing, if you are not satisfied with the service you receive, write about it to your MP the Chief Officer the Press even but don't hold your breath change will only come slowly .... oh and beware what you wish for because you might just get it.

On a slightly different subject but linked nevertheless I know that some Forces have taken to 'dip sampling ' their customers [victims], of course these people are always very well pleased but then again the Forces control the release of information in this respect, so you would need to apply under the Freedom of Information Act to get the true picture.

CRIME PREVENTION [better than a cure]

The important thing in todays society I think is don't rely on someone else [The Police]to protect you or your property ... it is generally too late, do it yourself.
Crime prevention is just a matter of thinking like a criminal and what you would do if you wanted to attack a person or premises and then to think of what would deter you ... everyone of you can do this and hopefully prevent yourselves from becoming just another statistic or worse, a headline.

Sleep Safe.

Jurgen
 

OT - cheer yourselves up on Monday night.

So, front-line police officers get it from all sides. I can see how that could get a person down. So, here's a recommendation from a MoP with sympathy for the right kind of front-line police officer (you know who you are):

There's about 90mins of blessed relief on Monday night - if you haven't seen it before, park yourself in front of the TV/set the video for "Anchorman" (BBC1, 10.25pm).

It has to be one of the funniest movies I have seen. It should raise a smile at the very least from even the most put upon front-line officer.

So, do yourself a favour, have a watch and hopefully a chuckle or two.
 

Would i be out of line calling said PCSO a Chunt?
Waste of time the lot of them, cant fight, cant arrest, cant do anything except generate more pointless paprework for me and you.(or you and I). Jobs fecked.....
Twelvelegs
 

Firstly, I've never had a problem with the skateboarding kids. They are usually the nice ones, who will hold a conversation with you at the patrol car window when you go and tell them that Mrs Miggins has complained that they are the evil of our society just because they use the local multistorey at night to practice. No where near her house. Without abusing her.

The mere fact that they are able to string a sentence together rather than a series of grunts, hand gestures and head jerks tells me that these are not the kids we should be targeting.

Now the ones who this is aimed at is the chavvy little darlings who steal the nice sk8ter bois boards and generally beat them to a pulp for wanting to get a bit of exercise rather than get pissed on Frosty Jack and wheel their 6 month old baby round the town centre with their equally pissed and abusive mates at 1am (this actually happened)

Lets face it - we are never going to appeal to the youth of today. Especially not by trying to act "kool". Didn't anyone learn anything from Secondary school? If you try too hard you get your head flushed down the loo and a good kicking after school in the park.

Secondly...I tend to try and give CSO's a wide berth as they make unneccessary work for me and have a tendency to panic and over egg the pudding. My last brush with one saw a classic neighbourhood dispute over land and the right of way over the shared driveway turned into an harassment...just because the CSO that had gone to "deal" with it started squeeking about it to both parties.

Two complaints. Two hours at each house. Two times to explain the harassment act and its real purpose. Two times to get screamed at. Two times to explain what a civil matter was.

Wasted two whole shifts getting rid of that cack. Mediation starts next week and the crime reports (the two of them) have been filed.

Well done, love...excelled yourself this time, haven't you? No training in law but yet you advise people to harp on about harassment. You know what the police call centres are like as well....they follow their little flow chart and the minute a customer says that magic word "harassment" they get another tick in the box. Anyone else find that in their force it is a staple crime report for the offence of "doesn't-quite-fit-into-anything-else"?

Frustrated? Yes!
 

I have read through the last 84 comments or so.

A common thread seems to be MOP'S wondering why PC'S can't do anything about senior managers and PC'S explaining the reason's why.

In my force, management use the trick of saying any change that is being put in place is to assist front line officers. If you complain that this is b*****ks then you are dismissed as being frightened of change and are ignored even more than usual.

Meanwhile: Two examples of how change has assisted me:

1, Two drunken idiots have an argument on their mobile phone.

They both call our call centre and speak a call taker, who in due course goes through the motions and produces two separate crimes for harassment (allegation and counter-allegation).

The two separate crimes for harassment both get tasked to me. I am going to have to spend literally weeks sorting it out.

2, A PSCO seizes CCTV from a shop theft and places it in property.

But... It wasn't labelled. I had to go through boxes and boxes of stuff to get the right item. None of this matters anyway because the PSCO in question never exhibited the item and thus there is no continuity.

I've spoken to both these members of staff and found them to be very keen and willing, just hopelessly ignorant of what it is that front line officers need from “support staff” if they are really going to help us.

And this is ignorance about front line policing from within my own organisation!

The level of ignorance about what my job actually consists of amongst members of the public must be even higher.

To the several MOP’S who have been asking about why Officers don’t do more to change things: I will do what I can but that will have to be within the law and the codes of conduct or I will lose my job and my family will suffer.

Two comments: 1, “In a democracy people get exactly the government they deserve”. 2, “Knowledge is power”.

If you are a Member of the Public reading this comment then this is YOUR Police we are talking about. So be active. Use the freedom of information act to find stuff out and go to a community meeting where one of the bosses is trying to reassure you everything is OK. When you start asking questions and they realise that you know more than they do, they will start sweating and you will see things change.
 

I'm glad that some other cops have put on a few comments to back up what I've been saying earlier.

The comments about not having the balls to stand up to our bosses is way off the mark.

The person that made that comments forgets that the Police are a uniformed, disciplined organisation.
We have to do what the boss says, no matter how we feel about it.

It is called having to obey orders.
It isn't like any civvy job where you can argue the toss with your boss.
 

It amazes me how some people still think we have the right to strike.

We don't.

In fact we don't have the right to do anything. With our national pay rise (that we took in exchange for our right to strike being revoked) for the second year running don't you think alot of the police in this country would strike if they could?

The front line police get the end of the stick covered in the nasties because we have no choice other than to take it.

Why do you think PC Copperfield writes under a pseydomun? He would be sacked or at the very least disciplined by his complaints and discipline department should they find out his identity...just for telling te public how it really is.

As someone above said - we have families and kids to support. I'm afraid that we have our hands tied as we can't do anything and no one will listen. People will listen to the public if there is enough outcry though. Again as someone else said, for us to organise anything like that would be considered mutinous.

Something has gotta give.
 

"Two comments: 1, “In a democracy people get exactly the government they deserve”. 2, “Knowledge is power”."


Yes, I agree. Democracy is obviously complex, but I think many people vote for a given party simply on the basis that they (and perhaps their parents before them) have always voted for that party. There are, of course, a number of people who don't always vote the same way, and they can often decide elections. Another big factor is obviously the ability of parties to get their core voters out to vote.

So, I think that as long as the large parties maintain certain policies they satisfy their own core voters. And then they try to satisfy the 'swing voters', or any group that appear swing voters. So, without the majority really noticing, that relatively small number of swing voters or pressure groups are able to shape policy to a degree that is completely at odds with their numbers. Then one day the rest of us wake up and say, "What the heck is going on? How did we get in this mess?"





"Use the freedom of information act to find stuff out and go to a community meeting where one of the bosses is trying to reassure you everything is OK. When you start asking questions and they realise that you know more than they do, they will start sweating and you will see things change."

Okay, here's perhaps something that front-line officers can do:

I am guessing that a lot of members of the public that read this blog (like me) would like to ask some difficult questions of MPs and senior police officers. But I think it would help a great deal if we knew exactly what questions to ask.

I mean, we can think of our own questions, but I am guessing that front-line officers could help us to frame those questions so that MPs/senior police officers cannot easily wriggle off the hook.

And, perhaps you could give us some idea of how senior officers obfuscate. I mean, someone posted on this blog that only 12% of officers are actually front-line officers. But I am guessing that senior officers have ways of classifying and otherwise confusing things so that they can 'prove' that in fact 99.999% of officers are in fact front-line officers!

So, as and when a good question occurs to officers, perhaps they could post them here, together, if possible, with ways that senior officers might attempt to obfuscate, that would be useful. Then we MoP can then use that info to write to our MPs in order to give them a nudge in the right direction.
 

Jurgen - in response to your suggestion that no serving officers will stick their heads above the parapet, while you're mostly right PC DC is one who has (with this blog, and then the book, and then the dozens of appearances on regional and national TV) and WPC Bloggs is about to with her new book (as well as her blog, of course). There are others, too.
I hope you (and DC) will forgive this blatant plug for two books, one of which we published and the other of which we're about to publish.
cheers
Dan
PS Keep watching this blog for some TRULY interesting info, coming very soon, about which I can say no more at this point without getting a stern talking-to from DC!
 

A powerful, original video featuring British street violence and original music. (And not a skateboard in sight)
 

I was interested to see a local item down here in Devon & Cornwall's patch that about 20 PCSO's in the Caradon District Council's area are being issued with hand-held computers so that they can e-mail pictures of damage, graffitti and vandalism to the Council so that repairs can be effected more quickly.
Wouldn't it be cheaper to send them on a course in how to use the telephone?
How much more evidence is needed by the Home Office and Chief Officers that PCSO's are a waste of money and resources which would be better spent on training 'real' police officers?

As one of those who spent all his service on the streets I can only echo the feelings of dismay, disillusion and despondency that I see being expressed by the current frontline.
To the members of the public who criticise current policing - do as has been suggested here and contact your MPs etc. but don't have a go at those who are out there trying to protect you despite the best efforts of Senior officers, civil staff and other police service 'support' staff. If a few more of those tried backing up the frontline instead of criticising, nit-picking, back-stabbing and generally harassing them then maybe, just maybe, the job might start to get back to what it should be and used to be.
To the above-named spoilers,(who obviously read this blog page in an effort to identify someone to discipline) you should be ashamed of yourselves for what you have become and please don't blame it all on the politicians. You Senior officers could and should make your feelings known to those in power and not just roll over and pass on procedures that you know are rubbish to those who have to do the job on the streets.
To all frontline uniforms, thank you for hanging in there and making the job work despite the efforts of the above-named.
 

Let's not forget that PACE was introduced during a Conservative government.Therefore,do not expect them to get rid of PCSO's or any other useful reforms.They are just another bunch of 'communists',the same as Labour,Liberals and of course the BNP.The word communist is in inverted brackets because whether they are left or right is immaterial.They all believe in 'Total Government'.i.e.The complete subjugation of the individual to the state.This naturally involves turning the police into unthinking automata,to whom the idea of inititive will be alien,who will then be used to attack any section of society who refuse to submerge their consiousness into the drug induced twilight zone which the government knows will prevent any serious opposition.(The real reason for the downgrading of cannabis.)
Tony.
 

I am a sergeant working for the MPS and I fully sympathise with both the serving police officers and MOPs comments on this thread. What I consider is a point missed by all is the fact that to make a real and lasting difference we ALL have to sing from the same songsheet.

I get just as frustrated as the next person watching the CSO's swanning around the station apparently doing sod all, but rather than merely moan under my breath I will challange them to justify what they are doing. I appreciate that I have a supervisory rank, but so does a constable over a CSO. Accept some responsibility. Complaints about groups of 9-10 constantly unavailable for incidents then document it and pass it up through your line management. If nothing happens the first time then keep on going. If you still feel as though this is insufficient then make a formal complaint. CSO's have a complaint process reasonably similar to that of a PC. That said, however, I am aware of a number of truely exceptional CSO's who totally outperform a number of PC's I work with. It is unfortunate that there are not many of them.

Why should a PC be the only one subject to pressure and inefficiency?

That Gestapo which has been referred to a couple of times can also work to your advantage!

As for the skateboarding CSO, or PCSO Steve (MPS officers will probably know him) I appreciate that they make look stupid. They make you feel a laughing stock, but I see this as a big picture, long term thing. If we can engage with the young generation in any way shape or form then is it not possible that we might be able to keep hold of this generation? I, like manner others, feel that there is nothing down for the current youth. We will never be able to get back any voluntary respect for public or property and that means only custodial sentences will force control, but with the Safer Neighbourhood models being rolled out I honestly think that there may be a chance for the future, provided of coursse that we can get the teams out into the right areas engaging the right people. I hope and pray that they are given the time to succeed.

We also need the support of the silent majority to make a change. A couple of posters state their dismay at a police offiers lack of willing to stand up and say enough is enough. Please rest assured I am NOT one of these. I will contantly challenge, push and drive to make as much of an impact that I can to help improve the current situation. What the public have to understand and appreciate is that I can only work within the laws and statutory constraints placed upon me.

We, your Police Service, require your help. Don't be afriad of being labelled an 'ist' of some sort. Stand up and shout. Make that quiet murmour into a shout that cannot be ignored or supressed. If we all, as citizens, stood together and put forward our views then maybe, just maybe, some sort of common sense may prevail and we can get control of this country back where it belongs.

Never forget, the Police Service merely uphold the Law. We do not act as judge and jury. Our job is to present all the facts to the CPS/Court for decisions to be made. We may not like the fact that we have to present evidence of a victim of assault using a baseball bat to defend himself, but we have to. The decision of just how reasonable the use of force was is not one which we are empowered to make.

Anyway, my legs are getting tired from standing on this soap box for so long.

A Hopeful, Optimistic & Dedicated Officer.
 

Further to the above.....despite the appearance English is my first language. I apologise for the truely awful spelling!!
 

Most of you sound very insecure with the comments about PCSO'S Why slate people who are trying to make the county a better place?

Lets scrap the role of a PCSO think to date there are around 20 thousand or so of them thats a lot of people off the streets and I believe the crime rate would rise. Just think of that extra strain on the counties resources if there where 20 thousand or so unemployed.

As for the comments about PCSO’S never going out of police stations and answering calls why didn’t you answer? They might have been busy you never know. PC’S are never out of there cars, when was the last time you walked any where?

The comments about PCSO’S driving cars/small vans well I put it down to jealousy as only served less than 2 years.

The person who called PCSO’S C3PO why did you stay ANONYMOUS??????? Is it because you don’t want disciplining for making derogatory comments???? (I personally thing you should be disciplined)

The amount of crime is high and in places out of control. PCSO’S detects 1 crime in six years but its not really there job to detect crime. The police office job is to arrest but only 10 a year that sounds really bad. (And don’t forget the news papers printed that.)
 

Im sick of all these "PC's" and there insecuritys!! i work with a great bunch of coppers as a CSO they understand and respect my role and i theres, get over it you old skool bobbys! i served my country for years in the forces. yet you always get some chodd who wants to put me and the role down!! suck it up were not going anywhere!!
 

PC do not have a supervisory postion over a PCSO, a PC is the lowest rank a police officer can be, I.E the grunt, there is no one below a PC but alot of people above the PC.

A PCSO, is a support staff employee of the Police who is supervised by a Supervisor, a PS, who is also the PC supervisor.

PCSO's are a good idea roled out in a complete mess, it is the government, the chief officers and the police force fault for fcuking it up so much, no one elses, 90% of police officers and MOP have no idea of what PCSO's are suppose to do.

It needs addressing, the answer should be a purge on police force, cut the fat off, start over because its failed from the top down, what is more worrying is the lack of any common sense the PC's of the 70's and 80's have who are now the managers of today, it just shows the state the force was in. Now we have crap breeding crap, no hope!